Merlin wrote:Yeah I was just reading that part when you posted it. That's interesting. I wonder how the cells extract the ATPs from protein and lipic cells?
The glucocorticoids are the responsible of that. Once you don't have the glycogen reserve in the liver the glucocorticoids go to the muscles and dissolve the proteins into aminoacids, the aminoacids go to the liver and this produce the glycogen (glycogen is the carbohydrate reserve you have for energy).
This is in the extremes cases, because once you don't have fat (neither carbohydrates) you're destroying your muscles to keep energy, without proteins the muscles dissappear "literaly".
Silver wrote:"Carbohydrates are not essential nutrients in humans: the body can obtain all its energy from protein and fats."
The ones that are responsible for that are the Polysacarids, (glycogen in our case as animals), mainly the monosacarids are important for giving structure to your body (energy too, but that's JUST one of their functions).
The pentose (monosacarids with 5 atoms composition) are responsible of the DNA and RNA. (reibose and desoxirribose respectively)
Guys don't take wikipedia as the MAIN information source, I've taken this information from my biology and chemical notebooks, but according to my teachers they studied from books and took info from the .org webpages only in exceptional cases of needing internet sources (one of those even would have cut my head if I got my homeworks from wikipedia because there is incomplete or even false information), this is just as a tip for you with these researches.
"...The carbohydrates (saccharides) are divided into four chemical groupings: monosaccharides, disaccharides, oligosaccharides, and polysaccharides. In general, the monosaccharides and disaccharides, which are smaller (lower molecular weight) carbohydrates, are commonly referred to as sugars.[1] The word saccharide comes from the Greek word σάκχαρον (sákkharon), meaning "sugar"."
Explaining that, the monosacharids that are sugars are mainly the hexoses ones, (the ones with 6 atoms composition). This ones derives glucose, fructuose, galactose, that united form mainly sugars like sacarose and mallose. And for the ones that can't assimilate it the lactose.
This all started since the chemical synthetic products, this is when the cancer appeared as a Boom in society. I have the theory that perhaps the retrovirus are missing here, these ones are starting to be studied so they can be helpful or dangerous for us.
It has been proven that without retrvirus in the utero there can't be implanted ovocite. Also it is possible that retrovirus (there are ones that modified the cells) helped to our evolution.
It is possible that the retrovirus are disappearing from our food with the syntethic things? perhaps these ones were helping us to reduce cancer possibilities.
Or perhaps there are extra retrovirus helping cancer with the synthetic products?
Cancer has ONE MAIN CAUSE and it's when a cell goes from oxydating glucose to get ATP to fermentation where it can't burn glucose with oxygen and starts to ferment it and fermentation creates an acidic product filling the cell with an acidic pH solution turning it into a cancer cells.
Many things can cause that. Otto Warburg took normal cells in an oven, not the oven typ that heats your food but the type that can reduce the amount of oxygen in the oven. After reducing the oxygen by 35% if I remember well, ALL the normal cells became cancerous when taken out of the oven.
Omega 6 fats (ex: margarine, fast food cooking oil) are taken by cells for their outter membranes but those don't let the oxygen through as well as the good Omega 3 fats do (ex: butter, flaxseed oil) which let oxygen get inside the cell more easily.
Basically every chemical products that stop oxygen from getting into the cells WILL cause the cell to switch to fermentation and turn it into a cancer cell. The list is almost endless.
Don't worry my dera Lurae, the internet is NOT that bad, it save my brothers's life after getting his brain cancer diagnosis. If it wasn't for the internet, he would probably be dead right now and full of chemo in his veins.
Merlin wrote:Otto Warburg took normal cells in an oven, not the oven typ that heats your food but the type that can reduce the amount of oxygen in the oven. After reducing the oxygen by 35% if I remember well, ALL the normal cells became cancerous when taken out of the oven.
That's interesting (I nevre thought that), it is explained because without oxygen cells produces only 2 ATP, with oxygen 38 ATP. Once you take them out to oxygen they need to use that massive energy plus, because they're used to the 2 ATP only.
However in human's body, When are we expose to that? In theory we're always with oxygen o.O, only if there's a chemical that blocks it, it can be explained.
Merlin wrote:
Omega 6 fats (ex: margarine, fast food cooking oil) are taken by cells for their outter membranes but those don't let the oxygen through as well as the good Omega 3 fats do (ex: butter, flaxseed oil) which let oxygen get inside the cell more easily.
I didn't hear that too (at cells level).
Basically every chemical products that stop oxygen from getting into the cells WILL cause the cell to switch to fermentation and turn it into a cancer cell. The list is almost endless.
But only if we take out the chemical product, because in theory if the product is there the cell will continue with fermentation. But that causes more problems... forget it.
Don't worry my dear Lurae, the internet is NOT that bad, it save my brothers's life after getting his brain cancer diagnosis. If it wasn't for the internet, he would probably be dead right now and full of chemo in his veins.
I blame only wikipedia and those pages that are mainly used as the main source of information.
In other areas Wikipedia have a lot of holes, I searched for myopias explanation but there wasn't a great explanation that seemed to dig deeper the mysteries. Instead familydoctor.org have really interesting information, as such other .org pages. (And not to mention movies, videogames, music, animal's information ...)
That's my main point Merlin, there are better pages to use as source, it is only a matter of searching them. If you're going to discuss it I think that it would be better to use them instead of looking only in wikipedia where they explain barely what you're researching.
Lurae wrote:However in human's body, When are we expose to that? In theory we're always with oxygen o.O, only if there's a chemical that blocks it, it can be explained.
It could be like i said a membrane problem with Omega 6 fats instead of Omega 3 fats. The Omega 3 fats let's oxygen inside the cells but the Omega 6 don't so if a cell doesn't have Omega 3 fats it will take the fats that it needs for it's membrane and it's survival but in the long run, it will build a membrane that will suffocate it and without oxygen coming it, the fermentation begins and the cancer stats.
It could be because of a virus infection or a bacteria infiltration or a nasty chemical. Either way, it is affecting the mitochondria where the Krebs Cycle is taking place so if it can't make the full cycle, the cell will get only 2 ATP and dumps in the cell lots of acidic residue which will turn her cancerous.
Normal cells pick up on these acid left off and continue the krebs cycle giving them 36 more ATPs but turn all this acidic residue into water and energy.
According to Warburg, ALL cancer cells have acidity inside their cells and this can ONLY come fom the krebs cycle not being completed. So either oxygen can't come to the mitochondria or that chemicals are affecting the mitochondria in it's job to complete the full Krebs cycle and extract all 38 ATPs from the glucose.
Merlin wrote:
Either way, it is affecting the mitochondria where the Krebs Cycle is taking place so if it can't make the full cycle, the cell will get only 2 ATP and dumps in the cell lots of acidic residue which will turn her cancerous.
Normal cells pick up on these acid left off and continue the krebs cycle giving them 36 more ATPs but turn all this acidic residue into water and energy.
According to Warburg, ALL cancer cells have acidity inside their cells and this can ONLY come fom the krebs cycle not being completed. So either oxygen can't come to the mitochondria or that chemicals are affecting the mitochondria in it's job to complete the full Krebs cycle and extract all 38 ATPs from the glucose.
Merlin
Merlin you've give me the clue about what happens.
My theory is that the sophocated cells die, it is useless because with 2 ATP it can't do the process or function they are meant for and it has no use for the body. Since our body is really intelligent for that cases the cell is replaced with healthy cells.
Perhaps that's what causes it mainly, because the cells continue to die (with the chemical, virus, bacteria, etc) and the healthy cells (or the mother cells stored for that cases that have changed into the specific cells required) needs to produce the new cells faster ("We need to survive" is the innoncent thought of the body). Then with no option the cells use the fermentic way for the plus energy (such as when we do excessive exercise they do). The result? Cells with both oxygen and non-oxygen ways to produce ATP.
But the new healthy cells are exact copies as the previous one, don't it? These new cells uses both oxygen, non oxygen ways. Here is the main problem, cancer in plenty healthy cells that will continue the vicious cycle.
